All four engines quit. That's how close we were from. Did you for those long range flights, did you have big bladders in the uh Yeah, we had nothing.
I think they originally uh had a 1700 mile range. Wasn't that about right? Oh, no, we're further than that., I went to Hawaii, that's 20, what, 2300 miles?
So, you got some award in Vietnam for flying in the air so many hours? How many hours was that? How many hours did you fly in Vietnam?
It's like 20,000, you got the master. that what you talking about? No, no, it was an article I read. I forgot.
I got the distinguished flying. We got disting distinguished flying cross for going to caeson. That was it was like yeah, mountains on both sides you had to fly in between the mountains.. And yeah, they're waiting for you, you know.C you know, I' way you can get in. yeah. They indoctored not in but inducted us into the purple hard hall of fame because the air playing out hit, but we didn't get wounded because the coal pilot, the pilot engineered in the navigator had about a about three, about inches steel underneath their seat. so that would protect us.
That has a good decision versus the B 52, right? with no protection.. I didn't want to eject downward. is aieduff completed flying school, you know, you had your choice. I had to see 130. The B 47, which is extinct now, and the B 52. What was the B 47 Pop? Was that a propeller or a jet or what? It was a jet, yeah. And then there was another her plane was a fighter or the oh, the F 89. The navigator sat behind yeah, that's that was an old it was an old fighter he had. So those are the four choices I had, and everybody said well go to sack because you know. Well, well yeah, I graduate fairly high in my class. So you went by how you graduating your classus.
All American basketball player inin. Butways, some of my buddies, my best one of my best friends, heaught me how to play craps by the way. He went to the F 89 and he got killed in two years. right here at Oxner. Oxford field is right here. someone? Ox. Oxnard, yeah, it's outside about 200 miles an air. on the coast. I forgot what It's closed now, but surprises a lot of airmen get killed in training exercise. some lot of deaths in training. dangerous business. It's dangerous out there. trained for the stuff and do it. there were five of us from the academy that left. Four of the five guy killed. Wow. I'm the only one survived out of the five from the academy. So you gotta be lucky too. Well, you gotta be lucky, yeah, because you know, and they had a couple times and uh you know, we just you gotta be lucky, you. John, will you shake my hand? Sure. I want some of that. some of that over here. Oh, but I got cancer.. And it's from that ancient orange stuff, right? you to agent orange. Yeah, but I secure the uh uranium for the atomic bomb. Yeah. Hey, so dad, I don't think, we did not I didn't. I didn't arm it, but we carried the they used to call them a bird cage. That was a name for. It was I bought the size of a fire extinguishher. And that's the way you that saw the you know, the bomb is an ordinary bomb, but it's a uranium that makes it you know, hydro you know, atomic or hydrogen. So so dad, I don't think John's ever heard the story about when you were on the Gulf Stream with those three famous people, Yeger. So why don't you tell that story and so John could hear it and be very jealous of the dollar I have. No, no, please. I can tell you the whole story. Yeah, tell us the whole story.? Oh, when he met I came to you? give you a commission. Well, anyway, I didn't know that was that was the trip. That was the trip. never told me that you met Chuck on the trip. And Jimmy Doolittle and Pappy Boy. I think it was important. I didn't I met him on let me tell you the story. I, none of those guys are still alive to tell. No, they are. Oh, yeah, who? Chuck Hager. Yeggers. He's alive. He's 70 or 80. I actually went when he had a presentation and saw a move a talk.. I forget You should have mentioned it. Ask him about dad. he knows him. I didn't know. I didn't hear about any of you That's why you need to hear the story. Let him tell the story. I didn't even know you to him to show to the guy. I did actually give it to him, but he assumed he never he never gave it back to me. Don't listen to the man he's drunk.. I sent you a picture of it, didn't I? No. I'll send you a p I'll let you take a picture of it when you come over tomorrow. Okay, tell the story. Okay, well anyway. Anyway, you know when I you know, I was the aerospace and started at Army high school, and I go out to Travis all the time. On Thursdays is my day off, because the the chiefs used to drill the cadets, so so I could do anything I wanted on a Thursday, so I'd go out to Travis. So I nice to go work out and go to sauna. So I'm in a sauna and Colonel Bergen was a big supporter. He was retired, a big supporter of the Aerospace program at both schools. And we're sitting there and we're just talking and here walks in this big guy, bought six feet six, six feet five about 240 pounds. And colonel Burger said, hey hi, colonel, that's Colonel Burdag. He was a sumo wrestler. What's his name? Versak Bik Russian? No, he was I don't know. But anyway, so we started talking and uh he said uh he said, yeah, the colonel, you know, graduate the academy. and he says he says, well, this is Major Kardak. He taught at the academy. And so we started making small talk and he asked me, you know, how many cadets went to the academy. I told him that, and I said, I said, I have a s that graduating in about two weeks from San Angelo University and I'm trying to see if I can go out and give him a commission. You know, and he said, oh, he said, that's very nice if he could do it. And anyway, so I go back to my school and I'm preparing my lesson plans for the finals in the phone rings. And it says, uh Major Kardock, I said yes. And she said, this isara, Colonel Bick's secretary. He wants to talk to you. So I said, yes, so he taught me and he says, guess what? He says, I have an airplane going out to San Angelo on Thursday. And he says, uh if you can make it, he says, uh San Angel or Las Vegas? Oh, San Angelo. No, where were you Angelo? Saint, Texas that's that's where? There's no civilian base. anyway, so we landed there and the crew said, uh we'll be back Saturday, you know, which because I swore you in on a Friday morning, right? And graduation was Friday night and then you had to party and all that. So Saturday the airplane was waiting for me. So I got on the airplane and we went to Las Vegas and I went through base operations and I went to the base office where you check in and check out. That's the main hub. And I said, you know, I said, I need to ride back to Travis Sunday. And he says, well, we have an airplane going to Travis, but it's a VIP and he says we got four spaces on it, three of them all four are reserved. And I said, what's the chance of getting out? I said, well, there's a major cardac we're waiting for. I looked at the guy. He says, are you a major Kardak? I said, yeah. He said, oh you're the number four guy on the airplane. So so this colonel got you on that airplane. So he got me on the airplane and then he got the one that's going from Las Vegas back to Travis with Dooittle Jaeger and Pepe Boyton, Po. So. So that's why I got on the airplane. He was he reserved everything for me. tell us a story about the flight now. Okay, well anyway, so Sunday morning I go out, of course, and I didn't know who the other three were. I' I knew it was a VIP airplane. Rightfully so, because you were on it. Well, so anyway, so I get out there Sunday and I get on the air I get on the airplane here comes Chuck Geger. I knew him because I studied him and I said hi, general. and I introduced myself. And he was a major general, Lieutenant BG.g were all in? yeah, we're all in Siings, yeah. They had an U show there that that was aunderbirds were flying and all that good stuff. But anyway, and then Boyton comes on and uh is he still a colonel or He was a colonel, yeah, again. And uh they start talking and then Doodle Dittle was the last one on. and he gets in the airplane, those two guys stand up. And I said, Jesus, big BG is standing up. I said, he must be important because I didn't recognize him. So I stood up too. So you know, general doodittle. and so we all got together and uh Yeah, but he was still a lieutenant general. That's a lieutenant general's three star general star. Yeah. So here we start talking and uh uh of course, all three were pilots. I'm I'm the you know pilots navig superior to navigators. But as soon as Doodittle find when I was a navigator, he said,ey, I respect navigators because they got me to Tokyo. or Tur they wereomb. what I read Boyton was kind of a different personality.. was a rebel, yeah. How did you assess his personality, John? Was he he wasourteous? Was he ate? vulgar, he was among two. was he? have your dad and I met Pappy Boynton. Madera Air show. and I bought his book and he signed it for me and I said hello. he was said to be a very was a very gruff individual. He was a tough looking guy. Very old Well, hey, for war fighters, yeah well, you know those guys Maybe you look gruff and be tough. Well so you got them all to sign yeah I said you know I should I should have gotten two of them. and they could have signed one for each but I didn't think about it back then it's okay. There has to be winners and there has to be losers. Okay? You don't you don't want snowflake sounds, right? Right. Right. Okay. Man up, John, man up. just to make a short story. No, no, the long version. Well, you met these guys did you made them in the lounge or you made them on the airplane on the airplane. the highest ranked guy gets on last.. the highest is the highest gets near the door with the air. Well, didn't the airplane is still a. when we go on a base, the air come I'll show you the airplane when you seat yourself on those flights, John, are there a sign seats or do you sit there were four seats in a table southwest. No, no. This is aulf V VI's an air is when we fly commercial today, if we fly united tag you're supposed to sit here. think Donald Trump and airplane he would be on. had four seats and there in the middle seats the first one so well I forgot where I? Right with us. Yeah, we're right next to each other, all four of us are together. Now let me ask you a question, John. In the politics today, write uh people raah, Trump and uh boy, we're gonna go to war, we're gonna how do we temper our enthusiasm for being so powerful as the United States? We've got to be careful, right? We don't want to be you know, there's a lot of you know, behind the stages that goes on. All this crap you see is, you know, just for the media purposes, but uh Trump Trump doesn't want to go to war. He's not a wonger. I think too. Yeah, he's not a warong. he'll he'll take care of it with diplomacy. Yeah. But he'll make the Germans pay. But part of it is, as you gotta remember, is trunk's a negotiator. So he's going to be trying to get the best steel he can and part of it is is that negotiating is you throw out the the highest you throw out obnoxious or not obnoxious, but outrous gold and says, hey, we want this. There you go, are you out of your mind now? So so Pop, you're on this airplane with these three legendary guys. So how does the conversation go? Oh, we're we're well, after we sat down airplane takes off, you know, and they was everybody uh the three the three guys do each other. I was the only vagabond, what do you want to call it? So, when we started talking and of course, you know, Doodle found was a navigator and he says, he told these other two guys, he says,ey, I got great respects for navigators. He says, they got me to Tokyo. And he says, you know, flying over the water. He says, we don't have radios like you we have now, you know, where they can pinpoint you. He says, the navigators has to do everything with you know, with the stars, and Loran, that's what we all had. And uhor? Yeah, we're in Loran. Tokyo? How do you Lor Tyo? Oran is long as it's a different type. It's it come from behind you, right? They shot a radio beam from the islands out that you triangulated, didn'toryo, you had well, that's where you had to do the interpretation. You had Loran on midway, you had it on Guam And they're all aiming at Tokyo, I guess. Well, no,, what you got a thing and you get blips on a screen and you got line them up. And the the difficult part is lining up the right blip with the right blip. a lot of math. There' there's a little down a lot on, but math that's that little computer thing you always had that you turned a little circle. that was to tell you how fast you were going and how many miles you going to be But that now you're talking about the Tokyo raid. And did they rely more on celestial navigation? or they turned out during the day. They had Loran. we were talking about that. Yeah, well, you know what made them take off because the uh a fish, a Japanese fishing ship had discovered them, so they had to take off early. And that's why I had the ships the aircraft never got you know, that's why some crashed. Some went into China, but some didn't because they were ran a fuel.. So that's that's what happened there. thated there were 450 miles from east of their intended departure point, weren't they? And so that I think you had to shove one overboard if I'm not mistaken. He said, one airplane that couldn't take off and he shoved it. He shoved it off the dead of the water, yeah. That's one of the most amazing images to me in like during the Vietnam War when they were landing people. They took those huies and they just pushed them off the side of the all that equipment right into the sea of Tonin. selling saving lives, right? They need a deck space. They push it off. It's a multiillion dollar piece of a? He's a troublemaker. I think he's done with McCain. McCain and Lindsay they should tank it up. just want I think well, McCain is just mad because Trump made that comment, which was kind of, but he's no hero. Well, not for not because just because he got caught you? No, but I mean, he was like anybody else. what's? Hi, what did he? Have you ever told you went through training as if you were caught in Vietnam and you were treated worse than we treat a ISIS guy capture, right? You like, what did they do you? Well, tell you know, what they do is you start from point A and you're supposed to evade the captors and you have to go through all kinds of crap and eventually you're going to get caught because that's it. So when you when you get caught, they strip you, they put you in the shower, and then they threw flour on you. You know what flour does on a wet body. It not se up like your hair and it plaster. Yeah. And then and then you're in like that for about 12 hours. Oh boy And then they put you in a a cell and the cell is ground.a, I mean it's no, mud. And they got glass, rock, nails, and you're barefooted. And you can't even stand up I can make it shorted up, so you have to kneel over five feet or something like that. And they put you in there for about ten or twelve just to see that So that's what you go through there and then they want you to get out, try to escape, but you can't escape if you escape, they're gonna catch you anyway, because you know, you just can't do it. in the original thing, you weren't caught, though, right? You actually made it to the point B. or I made it to point B, but they were waiting for us. and that made them extra an. So then then they brought us back into the to the cell, so to speak. This went on for two weeks. And then the last week, uh when you went on your going to another cell, uh, you had to uh get your own oil, yeah, I forgot, we had uh one rabbit, one potato. and that was it. rabbit to eat. No, it was raw. You had to kill the rabbit. And uh in one potato and the rest we had to forge to survive. We had no food. That's pretty neat, John.. John, what was was there a psychological part of it was I guess the shovels 15 tons of coal out of a coal eh. I saw where he lived and he used to do that., you know, yeah. Hey, dad, so did Pappy Boyton or any of the other guys tell stories too, or was it just Jimmy Dolittle? well, he was the center. Well, some of those guys didn't go through that training. You may have been the only one of the three odds the only one, yeah. Well, I don't know, because they were you know World War II. I don't know what they had equivalent you equivalent like a special forces that was training a lot of most of the airs went through it. Vietnam was in the flying Tigw through after II. Well, you got caught in Vietnam, you know what was that thing that I don't know if it was training or what, but we went through and and uh Clint you got a mark and you didn't even know they had touched you. I mean there what was that? What was that? they couldn't go to Vietnam? Nighttime maneuvers and Nighttime of I told you, I met Clint about oh, maybe 15 years ago. Yeah, well, he was here, he was up in Sacramento, remember? No, but I'm in him in Las Vegas.. Your mom and I were coming down the ele or going up the elevator and here comes Clem going to not the elevator, but the escalator and he is on the other side coming down.? That was your best man, right? his wedding best man his wedding. and he was he was divorced by by that time, I think. And so, you know, we talked and I went have had a drink and uh this was in Las Vegas at the hotel. It was just sheer luck. Oh, okay. He used to fly F4 J's, right? Who was hil. Clint flew B 52s and B ones.. B One is a supersonic, and B one was a B two, one of them is one. B B was. The B one was the the triangle wing. bought.? Is the B still. in service? No, no, it's, right? V2 and B.. They still fund the B 52 It's too expensive. because they carries a big bomb load. Carries a heck of a lot of bombs.. So pop. flight, G4. You're on there, Jimmy Luluittle tells the story. Did anyone else tell stories? No, he was no, he was taught well, it's only about what? You know, just about an hour and a half flight, so you know, he was tying how they prepared you know they Utah. Did they drink? You know, I don't remember I didn't drink, no, I bet they were drinking. Well, they was they got a bar on an airplane, you know, but if you're gonna be shooting an airplane? Oh yeah, it's an air force, yeah. Shit. People shooting at you on the ground once you get up in the airplane, you ought to have a drink. Chuck Yager didn't say anything or Pappy Boy? I when I was teager, I told me I was an aerospace instructor and I told me, you know, we talked about him breaking the speed record and things he's done so my so I sound you know, kind of familiar with your your background. And Pappy, I didn't know Pappy in the bunch. The other guys are throttle guys put the thr Well, was not that much. I think Yeager is also an engineer too. He was he was an engineer. That Borington wasn't. Doolittle wasn't either.. Yeah, well, that was probably Doodle flew he the first to under the adult instruments. No, he was. He came out of World War I and he enabled the whole instrumentation flying. He proved it could be done..p guy. Wow. Well, what a nice you have to have a certain attitude, right to be a pilot in those days, you have to be a riskaker. You' You can get killed in those air a planes. So those other guys really didn't say anything? Well, well Pappy was telling me about Midway when he used to fly out of Midway and uh you know, it's been a while. I forget how he said you you know, they'd have orders and he said he'd break orders and take his uh squadron and do something different. So he didn't of course,, didn't he? Yeah. What what about Chuck Yeager? I mean Well, he was more of a experimental guy. But he was a a P 51 pilot in World War II, did he talk about that? No, not really. He was they said that he had eyes. He could he he he was an exceptional guy's better I didn't airplanes. That's I copilot to my precautious and I wouldn' be looking in the sky. It's hard to spot airplanes. but once you, you get used to it though. You know what you better fly at night. Well, in, you got the lights. You got the thing. Unless somebody's enemies are gonna be lights out and shooting at you. If you Harrison, you gotta spot them underneath you, right? John, was there any issue the airplane and then that flight from Vegas Travis Travis, no problem with the airplane. Oh, no. you know, those VIP airplanes are top notch. You don't uh you don't have trouble with those. Some exciting happened No, it was just uh we uh you know, just you know, normal. And uh have you seen any of those men since? No, they were at the air show at at Vegas, see. That's the only time I ever went to Vegas. I never went on the strip. You're the survivor, John? green belly. belly. they still do air shows up there? Do they still do? Las Vegas? Well, yeah, they yeah, Aliceis airbase is a a bigger showcase. flag all the time, that's a bigger all the like I said, when I when I landed from from Goodfellow, as the first time I ever went to Vegas it never went on a strip, because I stayed right the I got there on a Saturday in the airplane took on a Sunday. so but anyway, everybody was at the officers going down a good time and so John, how about that big man the colonel that arranged for you is he still alive? Oh, yeah, he's uh well, he's retired now, but he made two stars. He went to the he's still alive? Oh yeah, he's a well yeah, he's only alive Yeah, he's probably the 60s. Oh, a young guy. Well, yeah. He's one of the very you should have set the guy letters. He was one of the very few that I went off the academy that was I think he was in a secretary sent a letter and say you have a young grandson, Tommy Kardak that's a r Tommy should go into his best for. a. He's butt he got gotta be mean and he's too tall he's not like his dad. mus. I was like I got a guy who plays up about Thursday nights at our club. He used to be one of the students, Dan Burturterto or something like that. I think I mentioned him I I don't know if he would maybe yeah but he is an F 15 pilot. Hey, Paul, do you think John or I could have made the Academy or we too soft? Oh, I think brain wise you could do it. What about mental wise? Oh yeah we could I think, you think so? sure. But you guys are up too tall too, aren't you? Well, you don't have to be tough to go to the academy. You gotta have brains Tommy too tall? No, I'm just saying that it just seems like men that like can't I mean, you know, if you if your legs are too long, you don't have good leverage for he couldn't be a pilot, probably. He's probably too tall to be a pilot., might be too tall to be. Well, he couldn't be a fighter pilot because Tommy. Don Tommy. He's six four, isn't he or six? No, no, he's like six one five. he'd be okay, yeah, he could make it. Yeah, he would have a problem. I mean I think what is the So you're saying is six six? is he six somewhere in the last? So, Bob, of those guys who like kind of like impressed you as saying, wow, I'm really impressed being here next to Jaeger.er? Not Doolittle? Well, Doodittle is, you know, he was old.. K kind of, you know, I hate to say shriveled, but but you know, he was what was this John? What year was John? 81. Wow. So it's a long time ago. I was single then. Yeah, I was that's 35 years ago. That's a long time. You're still in college. Yeah, you were in college you were I was dating, though. Oh, sorry, that wasn't you. I was riding my bicycle around the block. Jesus wow. No, we were dating with it. We started dating in. Yes, we were because 81, I was in Berkeley? Oh God, what a horrible.. What the heck two? I guess that's much I'm confusing you with mama's uh nephew, um I was never made Nancy Nancy and Bill Davis' son. Was he also Bill?? Yeah, young Bill. I guess that was him. He was um to the little general World War II general good guy. I I had the idea that he was were you in a do any um was general right. They hit me away in the labs and maybe you. So, um now what are you doing at here? Are you are you working on laser stuff? Are you allowed to talk about it? Well, are you still are you a contractor for the the government? are you is it just semiconductor for industry? No, Harris is a government contractor and we get contracts to do various things, which I'm not allowed to talk about. But basically basically working with fib optics and stuff like that. Hey, when I worked at Cistron Donner was a defense contractor, we made accelerometers for the wing tips of the planes, you know.